the democracy by saying, "it depends on people of different perspectives to come together, have intellectual discussions, you know, listen to each other, tolerate other ideas, not be so full of how right they are. you know, and then say, 'where can we come together?'" you know, that's what's required. and the more we are locked into, you know, "this is the only right answer," or, "this is their only right--" certitude will kill this country. >> why haven't you given up? >> i will tell you, people ask me, "so, it sounds like you're a pessimist." i said, "no, i'm optimistic. i think the revolution's begun. i look at washington. i look at california. i look at the 40% of the people who call themselves independents. i look at the constant attacks by people against this nasty partisanship. you know, so i think congress got down to 13% approval, which only proves there's 13% who are not paying attention." if everybody was just happy with what's happening, i would say, "we have really lost, you know, control of our system."